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Neck shape

9/2/2014

10 Comments

 
A couple of posts back I talked about neck width and the effect it has on playing. Today I’m going to throw out a few opinions and observations about neck shape. This is a long-standing debate among guitarists and I want to stress that these are totally for-what-its-worth ramblings and you may well disagree but here goes.

Start with the simple fact that the human hand comes in a wide variety of shapes and sizes. Because of this there is no perfect guitar neck shape for everyone. My hands are of average size and while I am blessed with fairly narrow fingers, alas, they are not terribly long. So after many decades of playing I think I’ve finally figured out what works best for me, i.e., what is the most comfortable and non-fatiguing neck shape. This is what is normally described as a “soft-C” shape. Martin calls it their Low Profile. I’ve also come to like the shape of the Gibson acoustic neck, which is closer to a subtle D-shape.

What I absolutely do not care for at all are the V-shape necks. It is curious to me that many custom and limited edition Martins (plus quite a few guitars from the boutique makers) are made with this neck profile. The reason I can’t stand that profile is quite simple. I play some tunes in first position using “cowboy chords” (G Major, C Major, D Major, A minor, E minor, a few 7ths…) but I’m often up the neck playing partial or complete barre chords. Correct technique demands the pad of the thumb be placed directly below the neck, centered beneath the barring finger and a V-neck is really uncomfortable when playing those chords. Add to that the fact that most V-necks are fairly deep/thick and my technique suffers, big time. One of my students has a beautiful custom Martin 00-28V with such a neck and in spite of its beauty and great sound I know that she will struggle when we get to songs that require a lot of barre chords. I will break the news to her gently!

On the other extreme are the necks found on most Taylor guitars, which are quite flat in the back. Sounds like a good thing for barre chords, right? Yes – to a degree. In Bob Taylor’s great book, “Guitar Lessons” he describes how he and his luthiers came up with that profile, wanting to make an acoustic guitar that would appeal to players who may have come from an electric guitar background where barre chords are the norm. The problem I have with Taylor necks comes back to the previously discussed question of nut width. Remember, I have fairly short fingers and with Taylor’s standard 1 ¾” nut plus that almost flat neck I have to make some fairly radical adjustments when playing a tune that combines first position open-string chords with barre chords. It can be done of course, and often Taylor’s come through with great action (string height above the neck) but the constant and somewhat radical repositioning of my hand and wrist when playing a Taylor is distracting at best.

Some manufacturers have tried taking the concept of the flat neck to the extreme. Back in the lat 1970s, Peavey (mostly known for their amps, not guitars) came out with a line of electrics that had necks so thin it was almost silly. Their fatal error was making those necks not only thin but also flat and wide. Barre chords where easier to play but chording in first position and fast lead playing where tough, to say the least. Those guitars pretty much faded away in a few short years when players discovered this.

Way back in the 19th century and well into the early 20th century most acoustic guitars had very thick C- or V-shaped necks. Guitars from Gibson, Martin, Epiphone, Washburn and others from those eras command high prices these days and some players profess to like those almost baseball bat size necks, but unless you have quite large hands I would advise staying away from those vintage instruments. They may sound and look spectacular but you want to be able to play thing, right?! (I know vintage guitar enthusiasts are rolling their eyes about now as they read this!) There are exceptions among vintage instruments of course. But I would certainly advise playing or at least getting an accurate measurement of neck depth and shape on any super expensive vintage guitar you’re considering.

One other small but important consideration is not just the depth and shape of the neck, but also its edges. Some guitars have very sharp edges on the fretboard and this can be downright painful on the inside of your hand. One of the reasons I’ve come to really like the Gibson acoustic necks is that they slightly round those edges, making for a very comfortable playing experience.

That’s really the take-away here. It’s important to consider the type of songs you’ll be playing (and not just what you’re playing now – what you hope to play in the future too) and your hand shape and size when selecting a new guitar. Many guitar companies claim to have “fast, easy action” and while that might be true for some players, it might not be for you.

Peace & good music,

Gene

10 Comments
garywilson456 link
9/21/2014 06:56:42 pm

Hello I want to know that Neck shape Guitars have any other different then shape like sound or any other things.

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Reply
Gene
9/24/2014 02:43:53 am

Hi Gary - that is a good question and one that is often debated by guitarists. I think the answer is probably yes - to a degree. But I think the way the neck is attached may play a bigger role. Martin and other makers have used the dovetail joint for a long time and many guitarists maintain that this transmits vibration better than a bolt-on neck. This makes sense, although I certainly can't prove it! Martin does make some guitars with a bolt on neck (15 and 16 series, a few others....) but all Taylor necks are bolt-on. This may contribute to generally better (i.e., more complex, with overtones) sound from Martins, although you can certainly find PLENTY of debate on that. Re: neck shape, my feeling is that a thicker neck, being heavier than a thin one, probably negatively affects sustain to a small degree but not enough to be a concern. A heavy, thick fingerboard extending over the face of the guitar has to hinder vibration of the top and negatively affect sustain and resonance.

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garywilson456 link
9/25/2014 08:37:25 pm

Thank you so much Gene, This is really very informative.

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Filippo Sottani
10/10/2016 10:24:05 pm

Hi Gene. This neck article is truly interesting: I had to sell great guitars for their playability, in particular Taylor (PS10 Brazilian rosewood, K24 CE), Martin (custom): after a few minutes my hand was suffering cramps - I play mostly strumming.
The neck that I find to be the most comfortable is the Ovation one: from web I found to read that neck radius in Ovations is 10", while Martin and Taylor are almost the double. Ovation nut width is also extremely narrow (43mm), it seems that these 2 characteristics make Ovation (I own some Adamas models) the best fit to my hand and playing style.
Last year I played a Lowden guitar and was impressed by the beauty of the sound, probably the best ever heard: I have read that Lowdens are a great choice for fingerpicking players, with large nut width and 16" radius.
I have seen that they also have nut width (43.5mm at the nut and 56mm at the 14th fret) and neck profile as options for their custom orders: in particular a 'shallow neck carve' option is also available. Based on your knowledge, do you think that this option would make the neck more similar to an ovation one?
Thanks for your feedback,
Filippo

Reply
Gene
10/11/2016 09:50:43 am

Hi Filippo,

Interesting question and comments, thanks. First of all, you must have fairly narrow fingers because the guitars you seem to prefer are very difficult with for players with wider or even average width fingers. I have pretty narrow fingers for a guy and even I couldn't get used to an Ovation I had recently and ended up returning it. There aren't a lot of narrow nut width acoustics out there, probably due to the fact that most people have trouble getting clear tone from them. I do have a recommendation however. If you can find one on the used guitar market you may want to try one made by Gurian Guitars. They were a fairly popular "boutique" manufacturer back in the 1970s, based in New Hampshire. They made very nice instruments but sadly a fire destroyed their workshop in about 1979 and they never recovered. They all had very narrow but somewhat rounded necks and some people loved them for that, while others hated them. I believe their standard nut width was 1 5/8". They do come up for sale occasionally on The Acoustic Guitar Forum and Reverb. I would try one if possible before buying however. Hope this helps and thanks again for your question! Gene

Reply
revmarvinplayer@gmail.com
3/10/2017 12:50:42 pm

The science of ergonomics has taught us 2 things regarding neck profiles & fretboards. 1- the thinner flatter the profile the more stress on hands, wrist & fingers. 2- the flatter the board radius again the same mores stress. As an older player I naturally gravitated to that but not before the contemporary thinner profiles damaged my hand / wrist. Took me a while & an outstanding DOc who specialized in human mechanics to get me back on the guitar.

Reply
Gene
3/10/2017 03:23:00 pm

Very interesting and that makes a lot sense. I feel that more radius combined with the slightly rounded edges as found on many Gibson acoustics and the Eastman AC422CE I use these days for most of my gigging does make for a more comfortable playing experience. There are other factors in play however, such as how you hold the neck (hopefully, with wrist dropped and thumb parallel to 2nd finger, avoiding the "baseball bat" grip) and the type of chords you mostly use. Playing songs with lots of barre chords both in 1st position and farther up the neck is usually easier with a fairiy shallow profiled neck. This is what I do quite a bit and because of this I avoid thick, chunky necks or worse yet, the V- or modified V necks that are found on some of the "vintage" models by various makers. YMMV of course!

Reply
Filippo
3/10/2017 03:59:54 pm

Interesting feedback Gene, I have read that most Taylors and Martins have a 18" radius while Gibson has 12: ovation is at 10" and still is by far my preferred. I recently bought a Maton 808: even if radius and neck width are very similar to the ovation one, still I find ovations to be the most comfortable for my hand... and thanks god they have restarted us production ;-)

Reply
Glenn
10/7/2018 01:17:36 pm

If remarvinplayer is correct about the flatter the neck, the more injuries then classical and flamenco guitarist would be the more injury prone players but I have never seen evidence for that.

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BBW New Jersey link
3/30/2021 11:15:58 pm

Hii nice reading your blog

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