Cape Cod Acoustics
  • Home
  • Your Lessons
  • Performance services offered
  • About Gene
  • Contact
  • Guitars, Ukes & Accessories
  • Acoustic Guitar Blog
  • Tips for guitarists
  • Guitar Gallery
  • More...

Guitar necks: nut width

11/1/2013

30 Comments

 
No matter how great a guitar sounds or looks, or how much it costs for that matter, if it doesn’t “feel right” you’re going to be disappointed, most likely sooner rather than later. I have certainly had this experience. One of the risks of buying a guitar without playing it – something quite common these days with the advent of internet sales – is that the neck width and shape will just not work for you. I’ve bought and quickly sold many a guitar that was great in every other way but I just couldn’t bond with it because it was just too uncomfortable to play. Here are some basics about widths and shapes that I hope will help a buyer make at least an educated guess about comfort and play-ability when buying a guitar without playing it first.

The first consideration is nut width. The two most common nut widths are 1 11/16” and 1 ¾” on steel string guitars. You wouldn’t think that only 1/16” difference would make all that much difference but it truly does. For better than 150 years, Martin guitars were made with nuts that measured 1 11/16” (with a few early exceptions) and even today most standard Martin models come through with that nut width. Things are changing a bit at this venerable company however – about two years ago they began building their classic D-18 with a 1 ¾” nut and many of the limited edition models come with nuts at that width. Likewise, the vast majority of the “boutique” makers use 1 ¾” as their standard nut width.

Taylor guitars started with the 1 11/16” nut width but quickly went over to 1 ¾” combined with a very shallow, almost flat neck profile (more on that in the next installment) for the vast majority of their guitars. Gibson acoustics mostly have 1 11/16” nuts but some, especially their modern jumbo size instruments show a width that is just a hair wider, perhaps 1 23/32”. Some imported guitars are narrower at the nut, similar to many electric guitars, with a measurement of just 1 5/8” – in my opinion this is too narrow for many people on an acoustic guitar, which of course uses strings that are heavier and wider than those used on an electric in most cases.

In the other direction, some steel string guitars (12-strings in particular) have nut widths of 1 7/8” or even slightly wider. This is necessary to facilitate fingering of the doubled up strings on a 12-string. On nylon string guitars the standard measurements are usually given in millimeters. The two most common on pure classical guitars are 50mm and 52mm. Wider necks are common on classical guitars to compensate for the increased movement of nylon strings and to allow for better separation of the strings at the bridge for better accuracy when playing individual strings with the fingers. The new “crossover” nylon string guitars used by many jazz and bossa nova players have narrower nuts, usually 1 7/8”. If you’re primarily a steel string player looking to get into nylon, this type of guitar will most likely be easier to play.

So which one is right for you? It comes down to your finger width. I am blessed with fairly narrow but (sadly!) fairly short fingers. Because of this I find the 1 11/16” nut width to be perfect most of the time. However, I believe that most men who have wider fingers will find it easier to get a good sound, i.e., no buzzes or muffled notes due to touching adjacent strings when fingering chords and single note passages, with a guitar that has a 1 ¾” nut. Most women or children will do better with the 1 11/16” nut as a 1 ¾” requires more of a “reach” and that requires more finger strength. Not to say women and kids cannot play the wider neck but the learning curve for a beginner will be more severe.

Next time I’ll get into neck shapes. This is a much more complicated and subjective issue, so as always, remember that everything you read here in my ramblings is opinion only. “Your mileage may vary.”

Peace & good music,

Gene

30 Comments
Chad link
3/14/2014 06:18:10 pm

Great article. My stepfather is building a guitar for me right now. I play a Martin d 35 from 1992. Love the sound, but lack some width on the fingerboard. I also play a strat with a fat neck. This enriches the tonal quality. Does the neck on acoustics affect the tone/ sustain as it does on electrics?

Reply
Gene
3/20/2014 07:00:14 am

Hi Chad - the Martin D-35 is a great guitar, and it was the first "good" guitar I ever owned! However, as you've discovered the standard Martin 1 11/16" nut width can be a bit narrow for some people, especially men with wide fingers. This is one reason some people prefer the Taylor (standard) 1 3/4" nut width. Martin is making quite a few models with that width these days, no doubt in response to the need by some for a wider neck. I'm not sure the width affects the tone all that much but many people believe a dovetail joint connection vs. mortise & tenon does affect tone and sustain somewhat and I generally agree with that. The type of wood also probably has some affect; maple necks are harder than mahogany so that would make some difference in sustain, at least. But 95% of modern acoustic guitars are made with mahogany. The wood used for the body and top of an acoustic guitar, along with the bracing patterns, shape of the braces and bridge plates are much more important to the overall sound and sustain. Hope this helps! Gene

Reply
Russ
4/25/2017 08:50:51 am

I am new to learning guitar and I find it impossible to finger chords without muting strings I am on my 2nd guitar who's is a seagull and has a1 7/8 nut and I'm still having problems. I'm currently waiting for a 2 1/6 Yamaha classical style that I'm hoping will suffice. I really don't want to give up but this is the last guitar I'm trying!....unless I take up the bass!!!

Reply
Gene
4/25/2017 12:34:17 pm

Hi Russ,
Yes, that can be VERY frustrating indeed! The most crucial thing is to DROP your wrist (almost like you were using a pull-up bar at a gym) and use your thumb to the side or behind the neck, avoiding a "baseball bat" grip, i.e., avoid making contact with the inside of your hand against the back of the neck. This along with keeping the tip of your 2nd finger parallel to the tip of the thumb will force your hand into the correct position and of course always arch your fingers, use the tips only and press straight down. Hope this helps!

Russ
4/26/2017 03:09:52 am

My plan with the classical guitar is to just use it during the learning curve, to ease the frustration. I hope to go back to the steel string, 1 7/8 seagull once I'm no longer a beginner. (If I live long enough!) I am pushing 60, with a bit of wrist and finger pain. I wish I would have started when I was 15 but "life got in the way"! Thanks for all the advice!

Nathan
8/16/2014 02:39:08 pm

I wish more guitar shops indicated nut width on their guitars. Sometimes when I ask, the salesperson has no idea what I'm talking about. My guitars all have 1 11/16 and I'm thinking about going wider and would like to play some wider options (maybe 1 13/16 or even 1 7/8) but I don't know of any stores that have these options readily available. I'm finding that guitars with a 1 3/4 nut width tend to be more expensive. I knew a guy in college who just bought a 12 string and used it as a six string.

Reply
Russell Best link
10/29/2017 05:00:16 am

I like the Seagull S6 Original and my Andrew White Freja with a 1.75" nut width. Andrew is a West Virginia luthier making some nice instruments. He had three primary production line guitars being made presently and the models with a "W" designation at the end are 1 3/4" wide. You should be able to pick a nice one from between $500-$800.

Reply
Angelo Carpethos
11/23/2014 08:35:22 pm

Thank you very much for this truly informative article. I want to buy a Taylor 314ce nylon to use when playing jazz lead guitar and I was not sure if it was appropriate or not, especially since my fingers are slightly wide with average length. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and I will be sure to use it for my next purchase. If you have any suggestions on whether or not this guitar may be suitable for this purpose it is always appreciated. Always appreciative, Angelo.

Reply
Gene
11/24/2014 02:10:25 am

Hi Angelo,

Thanks for your kind comments. I think that would be a good choice, especially for someone with wider fingers. You may also want to check out the Martin nylon string crossover, costs about the same and also has the 1 3/4" nut width. I haven't played one of the latest generation of Taylor nylons; was not thrilled with the previous ones as the pick-up sounded kind of thin to my ears but supposedly their newer ones have better electronics. FWIW, you may want to contact My Favorite Guitars in Naples, Florida or Maury's in Pennsylvania to get the best prices - they cannot advertise this, but they both sell at 40% off list and they are both very reputable dealers. You have to call or email them to get a final price.

Good luck in your search and of course with your music!

Best wishes,
Gene Bourque
www.capcodacoustics.com

Reply
Kenni Clark
12/30/2014 01:16:33 am

There of course is much more to it, and one can go on for hours about it, but I have just a few observations/opinions for now:
To start, a wide-nut nylon string is not simply 'easier to play'. At first, it might seem that the strings are easier to push down (although the type of strings matter some -- the sloppier, low-tension ones you're likely to find on a display model will seem easier, deliberately). However, with the distances between the strings, at the nut and above the soundhole, a person who plays more than an open Amin/Emin lightly strummed chords will find that left hand fingering involving stretches across strings (especially combined with stretches up the frets) are much tougher. And if using a pick, for individual notes or especially arpeggios, it will be far more difficult to do (learn) with any type of speed, versus a more narrow width.
So, this means the use of finger-picking, which is -- I think most people would believe -- far harder than most flat-picking techniques (although that simply means when one flat-picks, you take and exploit it for all of its value (tremolo, loudness, sound of attack, etcl)).
Another thing is, to me, since I do fingerpick mostly, is that 1 and 3/4" is totally inadequate. In addition I do use a steel string guitar alot, picking with my fingers (and acrylic nails); it has a 1 and 7/8" nut, and I find that often to be not quite enough -- wish it were 1 and 15/16" at least.
My fingers are long-ish, not wide (but not with really pointy tips either). I wouldn't consider my hands to be anything that needs special accommodation. If anything it is the methodology I have used which makes me 'require' a wide nut.....
It is my belief that the vast majority of guitars hanging on the hooks -- especially in places like Guitar Center, are made so as to sell easier to people who do not play particularly well (or are not specifically looking down-the-road for the need to).
Now, we could also talk about scale length too but that's sort of another topic........

Reply
Angelo Carpethos
12/30/2014 10:13:16 am

Thank you very much Kenni for your expert advice...I am playing a Taylor 314ce which works pretty well for most purposes but I will purchase a cutaway nylon in the spring. If you have any suggestions I would really appreciate it...I do not want to make an expensive mistake! Take care, Angelo

Reply
Christopher B
2/14/2015 08:47:36 pm

I have a question about 7 string nut width. How would I compare a published 7-string guitars nut width to a 6-string? I currently find most comfortable a 25.5" scale with a 1 11/16 nuth width. The two 7-string guitars I'm comparing are 2 1/16 and 2 1/8. Would 2 1/16 be the 7 string equivalent of 1 11/16 and 2 1/18 the equivalent of 1 3/4? My Taylor 510 from 94 is 1 3/4 I believe and it's great but can be fatiguing at times.

Reply
Franc Lemire
5/7/2015 05:57:43 am

Hi. I've been playing for the better part of 55 years (yup, I'm an old dude) and in the past few years, have needed several surgeries for trigger finger and also am developing some arthritis in my fingers. Not moaning here, but last year, I fell in love with the sound of the Taylor 314CE and bought one, figuring that I would get used to the slightly larger nut width. Unfortunately, this hasn't happened and I'm wondering if that silly little 1/16th is just my own inability or if you or others have had any similar problems. I'd like to start playing out as a single or with 1 - 2 others, but my playing has gotten worse rather than better. Any suggestions? Thanks...

Reply
Gene
5/9/2015 05:03:40 am

Hi Franc - I would need more info to make anything like an educated guess as to why it seems to be getting more difficult. Compared to the common 1 11/16" nut width found on many Martins (and some early Taylors), and assuming you have "guy fingers" i.e., fairly wide, the 1 3/4" nut on your Taylor should be about as good as you'll find unless you buy something like a custom Martin with a 1 7/8" nut. Again, without knowing the specifics of what you're experiencing (muffled notes? difficulty reaching chords? barre chord misery? pain?) I can't make any suggestions other than being very sure you are keeping your wrist DROPPED and BENT with the tip of your thumb parallel to your 2nd finger at all times - this forces your wrist into the correct angle. Never ever point your thumb back toward the head of the guitar and avoid making contact with the inside of your hand on the back of the neck, something I call the "baseball bat" grip. Hope this helps and I wish you success in getting some gigs together! Gene

Reply
Larry
11/12/2015 03:59:27 pm

Wow, you sound like me only backwards. I'm also an old dude, but my short fat fingers can't tolerate the 1-11/16" neck on my Oscar Schmidt. I need the width.

Reply
john
11/30/2017 01:20:47 pm

My fingers are large and my Washburn acoustic with a 41mm nut is inadequate. I can't seem to get a clean sound on the C Major chord at all and the C is miserably impossible. I'm left-handed, which narrows my options for a wide nut reasonably priced beginner guitar. I've visted a couple guitar stores and they stock mostly standard nut guitars. Any suggestions on left-handed wide nut guitars running from 200.-400. or do they not exist?

Filippo Sottani link
10/10/2015 11:45:19 pm

Very nice and useful article, just recently I have understood the importance of nut width and it's not a case that I can play hours with 1 and 11/16 nut guitars (ovation and gibson electrics) while very few minutes with 1 and 3/4.... and guess what? I have a brazilian rosewood taylor, PS10, the best sound ever found in a guitar... which I cannot play!!! :-( I also believe that more rounded shapes are more comfortable for my left rather than flat ones. Just my 2 cents... of course I am selling the Taylor...

Reply
Angelo Carpethos
10/11/2015 05:41:30 am

Thanks to Filippo and his comments on the Taylor neck...I have a lower model 314 and I just could not convince anyone that despite its superior tone quality for the fingerpicking player, it can be tougher to play...I am slowly trying different strings and adjustments...will keep you posted...love this blog!!

Reply
Franc Lemire
10/11/2015 12:19:09 pm

I had a Taylor 314 until recently when I found out that the 214 has a 1 11/16" nut width. It pained me to trade in the only solid wood, American made Taylor I've ever owned, but the 214 sounds very close and it's now easier to play...and the positive psychological impact makes up for any loss of tone.

Reply
Angelo Carpethos
10/11/2015 01:55:55 pm

I appreciate that advice, I will try one at the local music store. I am still actively learning technique and the slight loss of tone would probably not matter. Great tip!

Franc Lemire
10/11/2015 03:52:47 pm

If you do, try to get the deluxe version, which has a nicer fretboard, the better pickup that Taylor makes (Expression System 2, I think), and a hard shell case... Good luck.

Angelo Carpethos
10/11/2015 04:44:30 pm

That's great, all great info as it saves alot of trial and error learning, and sometimes, alot of money! I will write after checking it out, always appreciated!

Reply
Kevin Rundle link
12/8/2015 09:51:07 pm

I have normal length fingers but very fat fingers, wondering if I can put a 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 th nut on an ovation dual neck 18 string. When I try to play my brothers 6 srtring Ovation fingers crowd a lot , but the early Larrivee' with classical neck 1 3/4 is a pleasure when arthritis is at bay.

Reply
Gene
12/9/2015 03:50:49 am

Hi Kevin - the neck width "is what it is", i.e., you can't change out a nut to a wider one on a neck made for a specific size. Ovations tend to have narrow necks, but if you can find one you may want to consider an Ovation crossover/nylon string, which has a nut width of 1 7/8" inches. Most nylon sting crossovers also feature wider nuts, usually 1 7/8" to 2". Some steel string guitars have wider nuts in that range but those tend to be expensive, custom models. I think you would probably be safe with any steel string with a 1 3/4" nut. Eastman, Recording King, Loar and a few other imported guitars that are of good quality have that. I play a Martin 000-18 (recent) with a 1 3/4" nut and I love it!

Reply
Nathan link
4/5/2016 05:31:35 pm

Great info here. Thanks for sharing.

I think I have not overly thick but not super narrow fingers but reasonably long. I don't really notice that much difference between 1 11/16" and 1 3/4" but this might be just that my fingers are in the middle ground suitable for both?

Reply
Franc Lemire
4/5/2016 07:14:44 pm

I understand, Nathan. My fingers are short and arthritic, meaning that they feel "thicker" than they really are. While I need a full radius on my guitars to fit my fingers on the frets, having to stretch them even a little less to make chords does make a difference, at least psychologically. I just bought an Epiphone Hummingbird Pro, which has the 1 11/16" nut width and I love it. When contrasted with my old Taylor 314CE, it makes all the difference in the world. And, as stated in the first sentence of Gene's article above, if the feel isn't right, then disappointment surely will follow. Good luck...

Reply
Angelo Carpethos
4/5/2016 07:49:29 pm

I would like to thank you all for commenting on the significance of nut width...after trying to adapt to the Taylor 314 ce I have finally sold it and use a Martin GPC-PA5 and it is much easier to play...especially when the thumb over neck technique is nessesary...I am sure the shape of the Taylor neck was another factor in making it slightly more difficult to play as well. Interestingly, Franc Lemire now uses a Epiphone Hummingbird Pro and I bet the neck is similar to the Ibanez Dove that I have...which is by far the easiest to play of all!! I think this guitar was a Hummingbird knock off in the 70's...I now learned that it comes down to what Gene said in the opening article which is really good advice...You have all been very helpful and I appreciate reading your comments!!

Reply
tom
10/27/2016 01:16:41 pm

I can attest to the difference 1/16" makes. I bought a nice Cole Clark guitar, only to find that playing it with the 1&7/8" nut caused pain in my left hand. Took it to a Luthier, who did a neck taper for me to bring it down to 1&11/16", and have had no further issue with it. It's my main guitar now.

Also, I've been searching for a nylon string guitar with a 1 11/16" nut for a while now, and have not found any. Any suggestions, or are they just not being made anywhere?

Reply
Filippo Sottani link
10/27/2016 01:36:37 pm

I would go for an ovation, the country artist for example or an older 1612 model

Reply
tom
10/28/2016 06:11:55 am

thanks for trying Fillippo but neither one would work for me.- found both Ovations on the net - the 1612 is a steel string guitar and the 'country artist 1624' has a 1&7/8" nut,

Again, I'm looking for a nylon string guitar with a 1&11/16" nut. Anyone else no if such a guitar is made by any commonly known manufacturer?




Leave a Reply.

    Author

    Gene Bourque

    Archives

    June 2022
    May 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    November 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    April 2018
    February 2018
    January 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    May 2017
    April 2017
    February 2017
    January 2017
    December 2016
    November 2016
    October 2016
    August 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016
    May 2016
    April 2016
    March 2016
    February 2016
    January 2016
    December 2015
    November 2015
    October 2015
    September 2015
    August 2015
    May 2015
    April 2015
    March 2015
    February 2015
    December 2014
    November 2014
    October 2014
    September 2014
    August 2014
    July 2014
    June 2014
    May 2014
    April 2014
    February 2014
    January 2014
    December 2013
    November 2013
    October 2013
    September 2013
    August 2013
    July 2013
    June 2013
    May 2013
    April 2013
    March 2013
    February 2013
    January 2013
    December 2012
    November 2012
    October 2012
    September 2012
    August 2012
    July 2012
    June 2012
    May 2012
    April 2012
    March 2012
    February 2012
    January 2012
    December 2011
    November 2011
    October 2011
    September 2011
    August 2011
    July 2011
    June 2011
    May 2011
    April 2011
    March 2011
    February 2011
    January 2011
    December 2010
    November 2010
    October 2010

    Categories

    All

    RSS Feed